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New Daddy
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Post subject: Re: Possibly One of the Best Presentations about Firearms  Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:04 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:10 pm Posts: 691
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While they're neat to look at, I always find holes in the history they present. For example, the examples at the end. Germany always had gun control - not just in 1938. I'm sure that many of the other examples are wrong as well - for example Uganda was a Brit colony and as such probably had the British system in place prior to independence.
I could go on, but you get the point.
_________________ If Dave's bodyguard attacks me, I'm out of here!
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Kona Dave
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Post subject: Re: Possibly One of the Best Presentations about Firearms  Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:02 pm |
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:30 pm Posts: 3608 Location: Kapolei
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New Daddy wrote: While they're neat to look at, I always find holes in the history they present. For example, the examples at the end. Germany always had gun control - not just in 1938. I'm sure that many of the other examples are wrong as well - for example Uganda was a Brit colony and as such probably had the British system in place prior to independence.
I could go on, but you get the point. I didn't know any of that. So if you have a few extra mins whatever else is wrong I would like to know it. BTW, the British total ban on guns is fairly recent (relatively speaking). Before the beginning of the total ban their gun control laws were more restrictive than ours. Not sure when Uganda independence came about but it would be interesting to see where they were in their gun laws when Uganda did gain independence. Looks like I have a lot of research to do this weekend. Thanks!
_________________ Kona Dave
Ka'u Web Ka'u Blog Ka'u Homes Pohue Bay Kona Forum Dream Kona Southpoint Hawaii Da Kine Hosting Da Kine Web Design
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New Daddy
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Post subject: Re: Possibly One of the Best Presentations about Firearms  Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:27 am |
| Da Kine |
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:10 pm Posts: 691
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Generally it depends on how you define "gun control." For example, in Germany if you were Aryan and wealthy or in the military, there was zero gun control. If you were Jewish, having a gun carried the death penalty. Everyone else fell somewhere in between. For Britain, guns have been strictly controlled since pretty much the beginning of time - generally based on class and social status. During WWII, they actually had "gun drives" asking Americans to "loan" them firearms for the Homeguard - even then civilian weapons were severely limited - mostly shotguns. That's part of the reason that Britain's gun ban was so "successful" - there just weren't many legal gunowners to begin with. I'm just guessing about Britain's impact on Uganda of course, but in most of the other British colonies that I'm familiar with (Rhodesia for example) Britain imposed it's system of laws. Rhodesia kept this system after UDI - even though they were under constant attack from terrorist forces. In Rhodesia, guns were readily available as long as you had justified need - then a permit and a firearm would be issued. On farms and outlying areas this generally meant at least one "military grade weapon" (generally 2nd tier or captured) was issued to the adult males. Often, they would also be issued a handgun. For people that lived in cities, guns were limited but generally issued to individuals who traveled between settlements and as terrorist attacks increased, firearms became more prevalent in the cities. However, by that time every able bodied male was in the military anyway. Back in the day, there was a popular quote by Hitler all over the place - "1934 will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" Usually, this was attributed to the Party newspaper (don't remember the name, but Goebbels published it). Of course, the quote is false. Here is an article written by a friend of mine (who often used me a resource - you know when we had time for this sort of thing before we all had kids) that gives a pretty good general outline of German gun control history: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... -ownership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The real bottom line on this stuff is that it is rarely written by historians and the writers generally miss the larger picture or "overlook" key facts in pursuit of their agenda.
_________________ If Dave's bodyguard attacks me, I'm out of here!
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Kona Dave
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Post subject: Re: Possibly One of the Best Presentations about Firearms  Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:11 pm |
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:30 pm Posts: 3608 Location: Kapolei
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New Daddy wrote: Generally it depends on how you define "gun control." For example, in Germany if you were Aryan and wealthy or in the military, there was zero gun control. If you were Jewish, having a gun carried the death penalty. Everyone else fell somewhere in between. For Britain, guns have been strictly controlled since pretty much the beginning of time - generally based on class and social status. During WWII, they actually had "gun drives" asking Americans to "loan" them firearms for the Homeguard - even then civilian weapons were severely limited - mostly shotguns. That's part of the reason that Britain's gun ban was so "successful" - there just weren't many legal gunowners to begin with. I'm just guessing about Britain's impact on Uganda of course, but in most of the other British colonies that I'm familiar with (Rhodesia for example) Britain imposed it's system of laws. Rhodesia kept this system after UDI - even though they were under constant attack from terrorist forces. In Rhodesia, guns were readily available as long as you had justified need - then a permit and a firearm would be issued. On farms and outlying areas this generally meant at least one "military grade weapon" (generally 2nd tier or captured) was issued to the adult males. Often, they would also be issued a handgun. For people that lived in cities, guns were limited but generally issued to individuals who traveled between settlements and as terrorist attacks increased, firearms became more prevalent in the cities. However, by that time every able bodied male was in the military anyway. Back in the day, there was a popular quote by Hitler all over the place - "1934 will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" Usually, this was attributed to the Party newspaper (don't remember the name, but Goebbels published it). Of course, the quote is false. Here is an article written by a friend of mine (who often used me a resource - you know when we had time for this sort of thing before we all had kids) that gives a pretty good general outline of German gun control history: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... -ownership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The real bottom line on this stuff is that it is rarely written by historians and the writers generally miss the larger picture or "overlook" key facts in pursuit of their agenda. Thanks for this! I read the artcile from your link. This is very interesting to me as I had no idea. Looks like I will be busy this weekend. I learn something new almost every day and today I learned a lot!!!! 
_________________ Kona Dave
Ka'u Web Ka'u Blog Ka'u Homes Pohue Bay Kona Forum Dream Kona Southpoint Hawaii Da Kine Hosting Da Kine Web Design
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New Daddy
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Post subject: Re: Possibly One of the Best Presentations about Firearms  Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:26 pm |
| Da Kine |
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:10 pm Posts: 691
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See this quote:
I've seen this quote pop up many times, from political discussions to gun shows, where a friend told me he'd found it emblazoned on signs. I don't think anybody knows the origin of it, but several have tracked it back and found it to be completely false.
Guess who the "friend" is?
_________________ If Dave's bodyguard attacks me, I'm out of here!
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New Daddy
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Post subject: Re: Possibly One of the Best Presentations about Firearms  Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:41 am |
| Da Kine |
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:10 pm Posts: 691
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In some of his articles, he actually names but that's generally when I did actual research for him. If I can find one, I'll PM it to you.
_________________ If Dave's bodyguard attacks me, I'm out of here!
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Vakoby
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Post subject: Re: Possibly One of the Best Presentations about Firearms  Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:19 am |
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:05 pm Posts: 4 Location: Part time resident Kona and Virginia
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Dave,
Just bought in Kona and making a very gradual move from Va. I'm a IDPA competitor back there, and would like to find a local range in Kona... Where are the ranges on the west side of the island?
L
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Kona Dave
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Post subject: Re: Possibly One of the Best Presentations about Firearms  Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:34 pm |
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:30 pm Posts: 3608 Location: Kapolei
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Vakoby wrote: Dave,
Just bought in Kona and making a very gradual move from Va. I'm a IDPA competitor back there, and would like to find a local range in Kona... Where are the ranges on the west side of the island?
L I hate to break the news to you but there are no ranges Kona side. However, there was just a town meeting about building one and there were few if any detractors so it could be a done deal eventually. But when and how long and where Kona side I couldn't tell you. See the link here: http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=3469.0There is a nice range in Puna/Volcano but you must join the club in order to use it. However, I heard it is temporarily closed at the moment. And that has been almost going on 2 years now. There are a couple places one can casually shoot around the island but they are all on the Hilo side. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Now you want to fly over to Oahu we have a nice range in Kokohead.
_________________ Kona Dave
Ka'u Web Ka'u Blog Ka'u Homes Pohue Bay Kona Forum Dream Kona Southpoint Hawaii Da Kine Hosting Da Kine Web Design
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Vakoby
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Post subject: Re: Possibly One of the Best Presentations about Firearms  Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:01 am |
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:05 pm Posts: 4 Location: Part time resident Kona and Virginia
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Dave,
Mahalo for the response... Yep been to the Koko head range, but when you're accustomed to shooting at the NRA National Hqs range it's a big step down... ;-(
Guess that's the price for living in paradise... Will have to check into the Hilo range...
Larry
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